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FBI agent who exposed mafia family that inspired 'The Sopranos' reveals how he dealt with the fear of being 'whacked' by his 'paranoid' mob boss
A riveting new podcast has given listeners a glimpse into the dangerous and murky world of organized crime, drug cartels and domestic and international terror organizations through the eyes of two elite undercover agents who 'lived it.'
Hosts Giovanni Rocco and Dutch McAlpin share their own harrowing tales, life-threatening scenarios and the daily challenges they faced in order to catch the bad guys in a weekly podcast 'Inside the Life.'
The podcast, the first episodes of which aired last week, is produced and filmed at The Mob Museum, officially known as the National Museum of Organized Crime and Law Enforcement, in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The show features a variety of guests from the crime world from informants to law enforcement officials - including Frank Panessa, former DEA agent who infiltrated the Sicilian Mafia, also known as Cosa Nostra, in the infamous 'Pizza Connection' heroin case in the early '80s.
Rocco spoke to DailyMail.com this week about Operation Charlie Horse, the federal undercover operation that brought down 10 high-ranking members and associates of the New Jersey DeCavalcante Mafia Family that was the inspiration for hit drama 'The Sopranos.'
Giovanni Rocco (pictured left) and Dutch McAlpin (right) on the set at The Mob Museum the producers of the weekly podcast 'Inside the Life'
The wall inside The Mob Museum showcasing photos of 'The Mob in America.' The museum is located in Nevada, and is the National Museum of Organized Crime and Law Enforcement
Over the course of the probe, he had a team working on the case conducting surveillance, and often relied on fellow agents like Dutch McAlpin to help when necessary.
Rocco led the infiltration into the mafia's ranks and was the only deep cover agent who had an ongoing relationship with Charlie 'the hat' Stango, aka Charlie 'the beepers' Stango, and other members of the DeCavalcante crime family.
Rocco, who spent years working as an undercover agent, said it initially did not start out as a Mafia probe.
He recalled, it was mid-2012 when he showed up for a drug deal they were doing in Atlantic City. They were investigating a guy by the name of James 'Jimmy Smalls' Heeney, a coke dealer from Elizabeth, New Jersey, who had ties to the Bloods street gang whom the FBI wanted Rocco to engage.
'I showed up for that, and then, it just kind of took a life of its own,' he said.
It wasn't long before he had a new identity, Giovanni Gatto, who had a criminal past, and served some time in prison.
He remembered that Stango was the target of an investigation. Their relationship was like a father and son, though Rocco did not necessarily perceive Stango to be a father-figure, he did treat him like a son.
'I told them I didn't know too much about the mob, and made them explain the life to me, the inner-workings.'
He 'would explain it to me... for evidence purposes.'
Rocco, who is Italian-American, was familiar with the mafia and its culture prior to the case.
Stango took Rocco under his wing, unknowingly providing him with intelligence that would ultimately help the government's case against the crime family.
Undercover cop Giovanni Rocco became his mafia persona Giovanni Gatto, who had a criminal past, and served some time in prison
Rocco was meticulous in how he went about his every move, but said when they started calling him 'G' or 'cous' (short for cousin) or 'cuisine,' he 'knew he made it a little further.'
'Our relationship was growing. I was comfortable, but I knew never to leave my guard down because these guys are shooters, convicted felons, some of them were murderers. Convicted, served time for murder.'
'I knew that some guys always had a weapon on them and carried guns, so yeah, at a hair trigger's notice.'
He said his capo, Charlie Stango was a lifelong member of Cosa Nostra of the Mafia and he came up the ranks of the DeCavalcante crime family.
He was made a soldier and then made a captain, the highest ranking level.
Rocco said Stango had him oversee a 'bunch of guys from a small crew' and reported directly to 'the bosses.'
The undercover world he lived in was dark, and one false move, he said, and they look at you sideways.
'They don't break contract with you. They don't go another way and sign an NDA with you. It's not how the real world works,' he said. 'At a moment's notice, they don't tell you, "Hey, we're thinking about whacking you," right? You never know when it's coming.'
He described his capo as 'methodical,' even paranoid.
'Your brain always has to be moving in different cogs and wheels because you are working a case. You're not just a criminal, you're an undercover agent and have to collect the evidence that you need for the prosecutorial side of the case.'
During the operation, he managed to record secretly hundreds of conversations relating to a wide range of crimes including counterfeit and contraband goods trafficking, warehouse robberies, truck hijackings and drug trafficking.
Rocco explained that while he was involved with the DeCavalcante family, he was also assisting in other undercover operations including drug cartes, and infiltrating the Blank Panthers, and the Chinese Crime Family, the Triads.
'I was living three to four different lives,' he recalled. 'I had multiple identities, different social security numbers, date of births.'
During his time with the DeCavalcantes, he became 'the right hand man' of Stango, whom prosecutors believed was a long-time captain in the crime family.
The head of the New Jersey DeCavalcante Crime Family Simone DeCavalcante, aka 'Sam the Plumber' (right), was the alleged godfather of the crime family, which inspired the 'Sopranos'
Charlie 'the Hat' Stango (pictured) was indicted with Paul Colella and his son Anthony Stango on charges of conspiracy to commit murder, drug trafficking and prostitution in March 2015. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison two years later. In July 2022, he was released from federal prison and went into a New York halfway house
While assuming a different life, name and personality, he was also trying to maintain his true identity, which included being a father and husband.
'I had my family life, my regular, true identity, as we call it,' he said. 'My kids to raise, my wife, to make happy and keep that family balance at the same time.'
But, it wasn't always easy.
Rocco, who described himself as a 'seasoned mature undercover,' he was able to intertwine his undercover world with his personal life -but, other agents may have handled it differently.
'When they give you these assets, we call them assets, whether it's a boat, a car, an apartment, a penthouse - an undercover could get very quickly swept up and lulled and fall in love with living a different lifestyle,' he said.
'You leave all your problems behind, and then you have somebody else footing the bill for you, for entertainment and all this sexy stuff that goes on in your life.'
When asked if he was ever challenged or if his boss was ever onto him, he said that his training enabled him to mitigate a situation that could have gone dark.
Giovanni Rocco pictured (left) on the surveillance with Charlie 'the Hat' Stango (far right) wearing sunglasses during the infiltration. It is unknown who the man in the middle is. The photo was captured on surveillance and taken in the middle of Operation Charlie Horse
A chart of the New Jersey DeCavalcante Crime Family
'You need to maintain composure. You need to maintain professionalism. You always have to be prepared.'
He shared a story. 'One night, we had dinner. I had a good score with my crew. We all made money, so I celebrated. We all go to dinner, and it was late at night, and we left.
'As we were saying our goodbyes and paying our respects, one of the guys said, "You know, cuz, we're standing here for the last 15 minutes, and that Exxon gas station across they way had about ten cars in and out. I'm hurting and Christmas is right around the corner and I need to score.
He said to Rocco. 'I've got two masks and hanguns in the trunk. You want to rob the gas station with me? Let's do it.'
Rocco said to DailyMail.com, 'What do you say to that? So, you really need to talk your way out of that, and I did that night.
'I told him, 'Look we have other money coming in, let's not do something stupid. Give me a couple of days I'll have a score coming, and I'll split it with you.'
He added: 'You mitigate it, but you've got to mitigate it quick - pull something out of your pants really fast and hope it works.'
Rocco explained in a dicey situation such as that one, that is when he would introduce Dutch.
He'd say, 'You know that guy Dutch, I always talk about. Dutch is looking to "hit a place and that he has got to move a truckload of stuff whether it's cigarettes or something."'
Rocco explain that one he knows 'the score' is coming in, it would ease any potential danger for him.
Pictured: Tony Soprano, the fictional crime boss of the hit HBO drama, The Sopranos
In March 2015, Stango was indicted with Paul Colella and his son Anthony Stango on charges of conspiracy to commit murder, drug trafficking and prostitution in March 2015.
Two years later, Stango, then 71, was sentenced to 10 years in prison after being convicted.
For Rocco, it was a defining moment in his decades-long career, but one that also forced him to relocate his family, and end his career as an undercover agent.
In July 2022, he was released from federal prison and went into a New York halfway house. That same year, Rocco wrote the book 'Giovanni's Ring: My Life Inside the Real Soprano.'
Pauly Walnuts, (pictured far left) played by actor Tony Sirico, and Chrisopher Maltisanto, played by Michael Imperioli (pictured second to right), next to crime boss Tony Soprano, James Gandolifini. Also pictured are Steven Van Zandt (middle left) and Vincent Patore (pictured back right)
Rocco said in this business there are 'personal and professional sacrifices' that are made once you commit to this line of work.
This includes 'time away from my family was the biggest sacrifice that so many undercovers, and operatives, law enforcement in general, make those sacrifices.'
He continues to use a different name; Giovanni Rocco, is not his real name.
When asked who was playing him in The Sopranos, he laughed and said, 'It depends on who I had to be.'
'Some days, I had to be like a Paulie Walnuts. Right?' he said.
'I had to give a little taste of what might have been -- an ex con -- because I did have a criminal history. My legend was that I had to be in prison so I had better conduct myself like Paulie Walnuts, but at the same time, a hair trigger of a Christopher Moltisanti.'
Today, Rocco along with McAlpin share their stories with their weekly guests, including John Gleeson, lead prosecutor on the racketeering-murder trials of John Gotti; Vicent Pastore, the actor who played Sal 'Big P****' Bonpenserio on HBO The Sopranos.
Additional guests include: Sal Polisi, a former Mafia associate turned federal witness against crime boss John Gotti; and Frank Calabrese, Jr., mobster-turned-government informant whose testimony helped take down the Chicago Outfit, among others.
New episodes drop every Thursday at 8 am EST (5 am PT) on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube.